There’s been a lot of talk since the beginning of the playoffs about “most skilled” duos of all time. The particular onset was Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving, who are all-time greats and some of the most skilled players to step onto the court, battling their way through the play-in tournament before being swept in the first round by the Boston Celtics.

There’s certainly an argument to be made, as many people have, that KD and Kyrie are the most skilled duo of all time. It’s unfortunately a conditional one, as skill is a pretty subjective thing, and when you look at who’s arguing for the most part in favor of KD and Kyrie, they’re hesitant to bring up stats in any function because of some strange fear of analytics, despite analytics being something that is often used to verify the eye test.

So let’s say skill can’t be measured in stats. Despite the obvious argument that a combination of above-average efficiency and above-average volume is the objective standard in what makes someone “good”, “better”, or “skilled”, let’s throw out the box score and go by the eye test to talk about who the most skilled duo of all-time is.

Kevin Durant is an all-time talent, a 7-footer who can glide across the court and shake a defender with a clean crossover like a guard. He can get to his pull up going to both his right and his left no matter where he is on the court, and his length makes it hard for defenders to stay in front of him, which opens him up to a variety of countermoves. He’s also a good defender, which he doesn’t get a lot of credit for, with true game-watchers pushing for his Defensive Player of the Year consideration when he was in Golden State. Kyrie Irving is also an all-time talent, one of the toughest shotmakers in the NBA and one of few guards who still utilizes the high-post and mid-range fields. He makes tough turnaround jumpers, he can dizzy any defender with a series of dribble combos, and probably has one, if not the best, below-the-rim finishing packages ever.

Sounds like the most skilled duo ever, right? Well, it’s not that simple.

Skill, by definition, is the ability to do something well. Expertise is a good synonym for it. When NBA fans and analysts do “bag talk”, they talk about how a player can get any shot they want, or how they can use their efficacy in the sport to influence a game’s flow. By this definition, KD and Kyrie are an excellent duo, but they aren’t the most skilled just because they have a “nice bag”. Basketball is more than that. So who else qualifies for the most skilled duo ever? You could argue Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, or Dwyane Wade and LeBron James, because not only did they win together, but the eye test shows that they were easily outclassing their opponents night in and night out.

There is one duo that, for whatever reason, doesn’t get much respect in this discussion. That duo is Steph Curry and Draymond Green, who both have cases for the best offensive player and defensive player, respectively, of all time. In order to make this claim, we have to establish a baseline that basketball is not just all offense. As they say, defense wins championships, and thus is a very important part of the game. It’s obvious the Draymond Green is a better defender than both KD and Kyrie, as he has every defensive skill in the book: He can make well-timed and proper rotations, disrupt passing lines, play both the pick and roll handler and roller at the same time. He stunts well and gives other defenders time to recover, uses his body position to give himself an advantage on defense, and most importantly, he has unparalleled defensive expertise. Steph Curry may not be better than Kevin Durant, but noticeable improvements to his defense (exemplified by stripping James Harden and various other well-regarded ball handlers) make it obvious he’s better than Kyrie Irving: He also disrupts passing lanes, something he’s always been good at, and he’s hit the gym so that he doesn’t get bodied up by bigger guards.

In short, defensively, this duo already has a better argument. But what about on the offensive side? When people think of offensive skill, they think of one thing: Scoring. We’ll get to Steph in a second, but Draymond Green has been often-criticized for being offensively-limited, and that’s true to a certain degree. But at the same time, he can knock down his open shots. What goes underrated in a skill conversation is his playmaking. He makes the right reads from everywhere on the court with his passing, directs traffic on the offensive end, has good screen position, and is a very effective roller in two-man actions because he can both pass and finish at the rim. He’s a floor general in every sense of the word.

Now, of course, we can’t talk about skilled scoring without talking about Steph Curry. If we really want to get reductionist, then we can say Steph is the undisputed greatest shooter ever and leave it at that, because ultimately, shooting is probably the most important skill in basketball. But we can go deeper. The only thing either KD or Kyrie has definitively on Steph is that Kyrie has a better handle. Even then, though, Curry’s handle is probably number 2 and it’s not that far away. Kyrie plays as more of a slasher, while Steph opts for separation, and each of their handles compliment that. In fact, Steph’s is a big part of what makes him possibly the greatest shot-maker in NBA history.

People like to watch Kyrie’s crazy layups, but he doesn’t have a finish or move in his bag that he definitively does better than Steph aside from maybe his left hand layups and his off-the-dribble spin move. Everything else, there’s enough footage out there (if you actually watch the games, of course) to make a case that Curry’s crossover, between the legs dribbles, combinations, stepbacks, sidesteps, drives, and especially his behind-the-back moves that get him his buckets are all better and more efficient than Kyrie. Case and point, Steph has two scoring titles, Kyrie has none. It’s also an obvious statement that off-ball movement is a skill, something that both Curry and Draymond do better than KD and Kyrie. They know how to run within the flow of an offense, as opposed to just standing around and waiting until they can cut or flash to the ball to get it back and work. That’s how you hoop when it comes down to it.

Ultimately, when you take a second to acknowledge defense as a part of basketball, then you can easily infer that Steph and Dray have a case to be the most-skilled duo of all-time. In fact, when you account for defense, KD and Kyrie may not even be top 3. Draymond is a better playmaker and defender than both of those guys, Steph is a better scorer and defender than both of those guys, and both are proven winners. It’s important to remember that the deepest bag does not equate to the most skill, but if we really want to have that conversation, then look no further than the reasons above as to why that point is moot.

(Photo credit: Ezra Shaw / Getty Images)